EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW! Vivek Agnihotri On The Vaccine War, Amitabh Bachchan And His Films Tagged As Propaganda

"The same people who called The Kashmir Files propaganda, will also call The Vaccine War a propaganda, get this in writing from me", says filmmaker Vivek Agnihotri, who is gearing up for the release of his upcoming film The Vaccine War.

In an exclusive conversation with Filmibeat, Vivek Agnihotri spoke about his upcoming film, box office numbers, his dream to work with Amitabh Bachchan and what really bothers him in Bollywood.

Talking about The Vaccine War, director says, "Some people don't want my film to work, that's why they keep saying negative things. But this is their ecosystem. I keep getting blessings from a lot of people. I don't want anything else."

Excerpts from the interview.

Q. The Kashmir Files has been honored with the National Award this year. I want to know how much of a difference winning a National Award bring?

A. Truly, I don't care too much about awards, but the National Award is a prestigious award, it has credibility and it really has a lot of value. I am happy with this award because after The Kashmir Files came out, many people were saying that no genocide ever happened in Kashmir. And these are the people who support terrorists and deny genocide. So this award has done one thing, it has silenced all those people. Second, it has given validation to what the Kashmiri Pandit community has been saying for so many years. So, I'm very happy for this community, for the victims specially.

Q. What was your first thought behind making The Vaccine War?

A. See, the first thought that came to my mind was that the scientists were fighting an enemy whom you cannot see. The whole world has come to a standstill, but the enemy is invisible. After this they made a vaccine, which went into your body, you did not even realize it and suddenly the pandemic ends. But I wanted to know the process that happened in between. I wanted to know how all this happened. So, when I started doing research, a few things came to our notice. First, we understood that it was like a war. There were many powerful lobbies against it, who did not want India to make the vaccine. They wanted India to fail. So, how we overcame this challenge is a very interesting story in itself. Besides, there are many things like scientists going to Iran and then setting up laboratories in the war zone there. Nobody knows about it. A variety of things happened that I think are very interesting and important. But above all, one of the reasons that really inspired us to make this film is that most of the scientists who created this vaccine were women. So, we thought we should make this film before it gets too late.

Q. This film is being called "India's first bio-science" film. Apparently many medical and scientific terms would have been used in the film. In such a situation, how did you ensure that your message would reached the audience easily? Was it challenging to write?

A. Yes, it was challenging because it was a very complex science. Unlike rocket science, you cannot show anything here, that see this is a rocket, this is how it is made. If you tell the audience that you are sending a rocket from here to the moon, people can imagine. But with the vaccine war, there was nothing that you could imagine. At the same time, the artists also had to be shown in masks. So yes, it was complicated, but my challenge was how to make it simple so that even if we use scientific terms and still if you want to understand the film, it should not be a problem for you. People who have no background in science, even uneducated people, can understand the film, so it was important for me to keep the human and emotional part strong.

Q. Your research work for The Kashmir Files went on for a long time. If you can share something about the research done for this film?

A. For this film, we worked intensively on the script for 2 years. The research for this film took less time because the people with whom research had to be done, all those institutes are in India. We know them. The team of scientists was also not very large. A small team did the entire work. Also, a lot of data and information related to Covid was already available, on request. But what was difficult was to know which pharma lobbies are working in India. Who are the people working for them and how were they working? That was the hard part. But I have been working on this topic for the last few years. My next book is also on the same. That's why I already had an idea about 70 percent of it. The remaining 30 percent we researched and found in the last 2 years.

Q. And talking about the cast, how did you lock Nana Patekar in a lead role? Of course, he comes with lots of experience, but in the last 5-6 years, he has not been very active?

A. Yes, you are right. But we were looking for an actor who must bring credibility. An actor who has never given a bad performance. We sat the whole day and made the list. And surprisingly, almost every artist has made a compromise at some point or the other. But Nana Patekar is one such Indian actor who did not compromise even once. You cannot watch a single film in which his acting is not good. Nana brings very high credibility when it comes to performance. We wanted an actor like him, with a strong personality. In such a situation, there were only two choices, either someone like Mr. Bachchan, but then he is such a big star that his super duper star image would have overpowered this character. And we also wanted someone who could look like a common man of India. I think, it was difficult for Mr. Bachchan to look like a common man because he has a very towering personality. I am a big fan of Amitabh Bachchan. But I thought, we will not compromise on anything. And that's how, Nana joined us.

Q. Have you ever approached Amitabh Bachchan for any of your film?

A. It is my dream to work with him. I had approached him for one of my projects The Tashkent Files. I talked to him about the role but due to some reasons we got delayed and things didn't work out. But yes, as a filmmaker it is my dream to do something unusual with Mr. Bachchan.. my only dream.

Q. Be it The Kashmir Files or The Vaccine War, as soon as you announce a film, a lot of discussion starts on social media. Positive as well as negative. As a director, does this affect you and your work?

A. I honestly say that I am not much influenced by these things. My only motive behind making any film is that; all those things which the society does not talk about, people generally shy away from, those issues should come into mainstream conversation. Many people make their films for box office, many for fame, but now the films I make are just to start a conversation. And all my films have done this. Like Buddha in a Traffic Jam started conversations about communism and Naxalism inside university campuses. There was a lot of discussion about that. People even came to attack me. Then The Tashkent Files opened many chapters. The Kashmir Files started the conversation on Kashmir issue and now The Vaccine War will also start the conversation on Indian scientific temperament and Indian women.

I want the conversation to start around Indian women because I think we need to draw a line between Western-style feminism and Indian feminism. Both are very different. But the films made in Bollywood are based on western style feminism only. The way these films show women as empowered is that they cut their hair, start drinking and smoking, wear shorter clothes and go on a trip to Europe or somewhere. You must have seen Queen or many other movies. Or she fights with her husband, or gets a divorce, or goes to court to take revenge for a slap. This is a very superficial ground for showing empowerment. But if you look at the mothers of our country, what is the biggest quality in them? The greatest virtue is sacrifice. They cook, clean the house, plus they can fly aircrafts or become the CEO of a bank. All these women scientists who created this vaccine were taking care of their children, doing household work and yet they were making the vaccine. But Western style feminism does not recognize them as an empowered women. Because western style feminism is all about putting women into the workforce and so they don't want any woman to do household work. Therefore, I would be happy if the discussion on this politics of feminism starts. And so, millions of Indian women who feel that they have been left behind because of Western-style feminism can also become part of the mainstream, and their contributions, their sacrifices, are recognized and celebrated. This is what I want to achieve with this film.

Q. But in the last two years, we have seen that your films are being tagged as 'propaganda' on social media. Many people from the film industry have also reacted. Recently Naseeruddin Shah called your last film disturbing. What you think on this?

A. See, negative people always talk negative of everything. Positive people see things positively. This is the rule of the world itself. This has nothing to do with social media. Well, I don't care. Those who support terrorism, those who support Naxalism, those who always stand against India, the same people called The Kashmir Files propaganda and they will now also call The Vaccine War a propaganda film, get this in writing from me. These people do not like anything positive. They want negativity all the time, everywhere. They have to write negative things about me. They don't want this film to work. But this is their ecosystem. I get blessings from so many people, that's enough for me. For The Kashmir Files I received a lot of love and blessings from the Kashmiri Hindu community and wherever I went. I am forced to be on social media because of my work. My work is such that I can't afford not to be on social media. Otherwise, I pray to God every day that please bless me so that I don't have to be on social media today.

Q. Does negativity affect your work?

A. No, I don't feel like a victim. I hate playing the victim card. If Naseeruddin Shah is saying something about my film, I have no problem with it. Either Naseer Bhai is too old to differentiate between right and wrong or he sympathizes with terrorists and hates the victims of Kashmir genocide. Or he must be frustrated about something in his life. I don't know what his problem is. I mean, why would anyone say the genocide never happened. If the genocide never happened, then how come there are no Kashmiri Pandits living in Kashmir? I don't understand where this kind of inhuman approach comes from. I am sure it is either time for Naseer Bhai to retire or he needs help.

Q. You also often talk about Bollywood politics. I want to understand what exactly is it about Bollywood that makes you stand on the other side of the line?

A. I have a very serious problem with this whole Bollywood mentality. First of all, I have spent a good time there so I understand how they feel and what they think. Whenever you make a film, they force you to dumb it down because they believe the audience is dumb. They think that this single screen, this middle-class Indian audience is stupid, they don't understand anything, they are not capable of understanding anything intelligent and so you should make a film as dumb as possible. This is my one big problem.

My other big problem is that in this industry there is no respect for writers and directors, who are the real creators. If you pick up the last 3-4 super duper hit films of the industry then no one will be able to tell who is the writer and director of that film. Have you ever seen a writer standing in the middle and the media covering his photographs? And it's not like the media always did this. No.. But these stars are the one, who forced this system to expand. They have started putting themselves at the center.

And my third biggest problem is that it is a very oppressive and corrupt industry. So, whoever says that we should not speak against the system and change it, my question is this is the industry which directly affects me because my bread and butter comes from here. So I question this industry. It doesn't make sense to go and do activism for CAA and stand in Shaheen Bagh or at JNU; but accept the oppressors of my own industry and kneel down before them. Therefore, I challenge that establishment, that system first. And I am not doing this because I have something against Bollywood or I hate it. I sincerely say from the bottom of my heart that anyone who knows me understands how strongly I feel that Indian cinema should be respected all over the world. And that's why I'm working so hard, taking my own films around the world to show them what India is all about.

Q. What kind of relationship do you share with other filmmakers in the industry?

A. I talk to everyone. Recently, Sudhir Mishra was shouting on social media that his leftist friends do not support his own film, so I said okay come, I will support your film. I don't have any problem with anyone. Whenever I like something I call them, write to them that I liked your work. And I don't think anyone has any problem with me when they meets me in person. But when I work, I make sure to tell everyone I work with, what my vision is, what kind of cinema I stand for and if they work on our terms and conditions then it's okay. If they don't want to, that's okay too. There is no problem, no bad blood between us.

Q. You are a producer too. How do you look at box office figures?

A. I find these numbers very bogus and they do not mean anything to me. What do statistics have to do with the public? If your films can start a discussion, can have a real impact on society, even if it can change one person's life, our job is done. The film should make an impact. Even after 5 years from now, people should remember my films as if it is a part of their life. Otherwise what will we do with these numbers? And the truth is that no one knows what the exact figures are.

Q. Finally, tell us about your upcoming films.

A. My next film is The Delhi Files, the shooting of which I am starting in January and hopefully it will release in 2024. Apart from this, for the last few years we have been working on a story with some very prominent people. I never said this, but I will make a big epic on Dharma.